tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post4739540752256947599..comments2024-03-24T12:54:16.636+05:30Comments on Calicut Heritage: Was Zheng He a Colonialist?Premchandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12413182610858952040noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-642592102090191802023-02-22T17:50:23.730+05:302023-02-22T17:50:23.730+05:30Very informative, thanks for posting such informat...<br />Very informative, thanks for posting such informative content. Expecting more from you.<br /><a href="https://www.matchfinder.in" rel="nofollow">Indian Matrimonial Services</a> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-84931276443474293642013-07-22T22:46:20.549+05:302013-07-22T22:46:20.549+05:30Indians are satisfied with land history and disint...Indians are satisfied with land history and disinterested with maritime history since maritime history will give a severe blow to Indian history. Traditionally the kings of east coast from Satavahanas to Vijayanagar kings gave importance to maritime trade. Unfortunately except Broach Brigu Kachcha the coastalline from Baroda to Mangalore was deserted due to sea pirates and general indifference ofTejaswininimburiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06098146870657720928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-27915252497307257332012-11-08T00:55:52.804+05:302012-11-08T00:55:52.804+05:30Thanks
I guess I should have been explicit as it s...Thanks<br />I guess I should have been explicit as it seems that you all do not have the words of Joseph in front of you. I will cover that in detail shortly. Joseph mentions the Chinese who lived in Calicut and came to trade from China and also those Chinese who came to attend the Mamankham trade festival. Joseph left India with Cabral around 1500 & the accounts were published around 1520. Maddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163804773843409980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-42519475724809254192012-11-07T20:53:42.138+05:302012-11-07T20:53:42.138+05:30I would very much like to know how can one assign ...I would very much like to know how can one assign "mainland" as the place of origin for "Chinese" traders in South Asia after the Ming ban? My essay "Maritime Interactions between China and India: Coastal India and the Ascendancy of Chinese Maritime Power in the Indian Ocean" can be download from this site: http://cces.snu.ac.kr/sub3/sub3_2_1b.html?PHPSESSID=Tansen Sennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-26011011605368664322012-11-07T07:11:52.715+05:302012-11-07T07:11:52.715+05:30Hi Sri CKR,
The invitation to ISEAS is a r...Hi Sri CKR,<br /> The invitation to ISEAS is a recognition of your work but is also a feather in the cap of CHF through you.Congrats.<br />To say that Ming expeditions were part of imperialistic expansion programme seems to be a little far fetched as every body has already expressed; but an element of expansionism can be injected to any expedition if one looks at these with such a track inSWANSONGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16373910814378426781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-64648483211022181312012-11-06T08:27:30.312+05:302012-11-06T08:27:30.312+05:30hello mr sen and chf....
my reading of the joseph ...hello mr sen and chf....<br />my reading of the joseph narratives and the details in the 3 versions make it somewhat clear that he is talking of traders from the mainland. Then again I thought there is no reason for him to stress about the presence of chinese if that were not a fact.<br /><br />also it is again MHO that we are talking of zeytoun traders, not malays. The malay chinese may not Maddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163804773843409980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-59516616316159971652012-11-05T19:55:02.079+05:302012-11-05T19:55:02.079+05:30Thanks. May I suggest that "Chinese" not...Thanks. May I suggest that "Chinese" not be always equated with "China." It is possible that the Chinese who resided in Calicut came from Southeast Asia. If so, the evidence cannot be used to argue for a Calicut-China relations during the Ming period. Also, what would be the evidence of the Chinese residing in that area? The prefix Cina- did not necessarily mean China. BTW, Tansen Sennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-24262194235736388532012-11-05T06:25:46.626+05:302012-11-05T06:25:46.626+05:30Many thanks, Prof. Sen for the clarification. As y...Many thanks, Prof. Sen for the clarification. As you may have noticed, our ambivalence on the military role of the Ming fleet springs from Calicut's own experience. The evidence is, of course, scanty. We have been advocating systematic archaeological exploration in some of the important sites like Chinese fort in Calicut and the Chinese compound in Panthalayini-Kollam only to help gather moreCalicut Heritage Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14760552324718923006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-10053313742900787522012-11-04T22:11:02.442+05:302012-11-04T22:11:02.442+05:30Thank you for posting this. Two important issue ar...Thank you for posting this. Two important issue are left out in this summary of the talks that Dr. Wade and I did with regard to the use of military force by the Zheng He expeditions. First, the Ming intervention in the conflict between Calicut and Cochin is important (Zheng He seems to have died in the military skirmishes between the two; and there are Portuguese reports of Chinese being Tansen Sennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-15728419336013671352012-10-31T20:24:08.148+05:302012-10-31T20:24:08.148+05:30We agree wholeheartedly with Premnath. If the Ming...We agree wholeheartedly with Premnath. If the Mings were imperialists, they would have left some visible marks on the local population, considering that the Peranakan population (Chinese- local admixture)is widespread in SE Asia. Only a DNA screening can clinch this issue!Calicut Heritage Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14760552324718923006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-57301814593969685892012-10-31T18:49:20.440+05:302012-10-31T18:49:20.440+05:30Chinese expeditions may be a part of scouting the ...Chinese expeditions may be a part of scouting the area for good trade partners and expanding their trade?<br />The Chinese had probably a trading post in Calicut .In the present day we can hardly find a "Chinese"look in any segment of the society.Premnath.T.Murkothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04899555419501714340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-25194075092999068302012-10-31T10:22:01.675+05:302012-10-31T10:22:01.675+05:30Many thanks, Maddy. It will be useful if you could...Many thanks, Maddy. It will be useful if you could indicate the source for this information about later Chinese presence (other than Joseph the Indian). I am not convinced about the historicity of Joseph because of the references to St. Thomas Mount. I would rather that we have some other evidence of Chinese presence in Calicut in the post-Ming era. In fact, Forbes mentions about the flourishing Calicut Heritage Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14760552324718923006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-85903644278383161902012-10-31T02:06:46.997+05:302012-10-31T02:06:46.997+05:30Thanks CHF..
I do believe there was a small Chines...Thanks CHF..<br />I do believe there was a small Chinese(minority)settlement of sorts in Calicut and some remaining members of that group spoke up much later.But most of them quickly moved on to other places, including Malaya after the skirmish with the Zamorin as Joseph testifies. That was later after the Ming dynasty collapsed.<br /><br />Maddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163804773843409980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-65057841539785313892012-10-28T10:01:33.186+05:302012-10-28T10:01:33.186+05:30The possibility of China having any imperialistic...The possibility of China having any imperialistic intentions in those days are absurd. More to do with cultural and trading activities as CKR and others here have expressed. By the way I do not think that imperialism is entirely western.May be with its origin in the west, IMHO there are enough elements of imperialism in the present Chinese make up also. As power corrupts, power also leads to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-71747306288422693382012-10-27T10:32:43.486+05:302012-10-27T10:32:43.486+05:30Thank you, JP for the perceptive comment. Indeed s...Thank you, JP for the perceptive comment. Indeed spreading their 'superior' culture was one of the stated aims of the Ming Expedition. You have rightly pointed out that imperialism is a western concept. That was why the Professors sought to amend it to 'Mingism'. I suspect if they tried even cultural domination with Calicut - otherwise we would have more visible manifestation of Calicut Heritage Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14760552324718923006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-37474785980174087902012-10-27T10:25:08.977+05:302012-10-27T10:25:08.977+05:30Thanks Maddy, for the new perspective. There is no...Thanks Maddy, for the new perspective. There is no doubt that the Ming trade intrusions must have disturbed the fine equilibrium established between the Venetians and the Arabs in international trade. This perhaps accounts for the derisive comment by the Persian Abdul Razzak about the 'children of Chinese'. Also the tradition that the Chinese finally left Calicut shores after a bloody Calicut Heritage Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14760552324718923006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-12030837766663144242012-10-26T22:53:36.412+05:302012-10-26T22:53:36.412+05:30hi ckr
You have quite some interesting observatio...hi ckr<br /><br />You have quite some interesting observations here...<br /><br />perhaps you will find parallels with the present day situation where the Chinese claim control over the south china seas..and are arguing about the US excercises in the area. And therein lies the core of the arguments that KM Panikkar put up many decades ago..<br /><br />IMHO it was pretty much the same situation, Maddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163804773843409980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842185206290989130.post-41203334887056844552012-10-26T21:46:57.283+05:302012-10-26T21:46:57.283+05:30This is an interesting note. I would take the view...This is an interesting note. I would take the view that the aim of the Chinese expeditions were cultural contacts and an expression of core periphery relationships that they might have conceived. Imperialism was western in its content.<br />jaiprakash RaghaviahUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559002155799495748noreply@blogger.com